Diving into Crypto - Launched

Diving into Crypto - Launched

00:22

JP

Good day, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome welcome welcome to this episode of Diving Into Crypto. This is the first episode that we're doing, so we're really excited to have this out there. And thank you so much for tuning in today on this new show that we have on Twitter spaces called Diving Into Crypto. I'm JP from AdLunam, Inc. Speaking to you about Web3. Before we begin, I'd like to let everyone listening know that in this particular show, all ideas that are shared are opinions of the person speaking and are meant for educational purposes only. That being said, and without further ado, let's get the show on the road today. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm excited to announce that we have our very first guest on the show. She has been an entrepreneur, has thought entrepreneurship, a journalist, and wait, why am I telling you about her? Let's get her on the show and have her tell us about her journey into Web3.

01:26

JP

Ladies and gentlemen, put your hands together even on that reaction button and welcome to the stage the CEO and co-founder of AdLunam, Inc, Nadja Bester. Nadja, how are you doing?

01:40

Nadja

Hey JP, hey AdLunam community. Very happy to be here and very excited to kick off this very first episode of AdLunam's first Twitter spaces, which will also shortly be available as a podcast, Diving Into Crypto.

01:55

JP

Lovely to have you on board, Nadja. All right, Nadja, I know that you have some extensive experience, but why don't you tell the audience a little about your journey into Web3 and what got you here?

02:07

Nadja

So I think in my case, I had the privilege of making an easy decision to get into Web3. I had left the corporate world, which for a brief moment in time I was drowning in. I was burnt out from running a marketing agency, and in general, I really had just had it with these constant grim reminders of how society was just absolutely going wrong everywhere I looked. At the time, I was traveling the world with my son, thinking that I was buying myself recovery time before I would need to go back into that cesspool of whatever broken system I was going to venture into next. Luckily, as synchronicity would have it, at the same time that I was deathly bored of rest and relaxation. Didn't realize that was a possibility, but try doing nothing for a few months and you'll very soon start itching to do something.

03:05

Nadja

I got the opportunity to start working professionally as a journalist and this is something that I had done at school, but I never actually considered it as an actual career possibility or option. It just so happened to be in blockchain for the rest of this history. The more I learned about the technology and the Ethos very specifically as well, the more sold I became that I didn't need to go back into these broken systems if I could just as easily go forward and, of course, contribute to building something new, which is, I think, for a lot of people, A, a dream, but B, almost an unreachable dream. In crypto, of course, it's very easy because you are really building things from the ground up. So it's very easy to have this. If you think about delayed gratification, if you work in a different industry and yes, you are making a difference, but you might see that difference, I don't know, in 20 years from now with crypto, in a sense it's the same for sure.

04:11

Nadja

We are not seeing the ultimate effects of our actions, but in an industry that is so young and so new, every contribution you make is something that you can immediately see doing something right. So, yeah, that was not a short nutshell, but relatively short nutshell, how I got into things.

04:34

JP

Well, that's fantastic. Thank you for that, Nadja. Because it's these stories that really inspire people or at least shine the light for those that are not in the Web3 space or those that don't understand it, for them to have a glimpse into what it takes to get there. But getting there is one part. Nadja, what's the conviction that's keeping you that drove you to get into crypto full time?

04:59

Nadja

Yeah, so, interesting question. I mean, if I look back on it now, for sure the chips are in my favor. As I said, I wasn't doing anything else at the time. I was really just on holiday. That combined with the fact that I had this dream job of being a journalist, which is something I'd always wanted to do but never thought I would actually do as a career, so those were two factors that made it very easy. This was not necessarily the conviction, nor was the reason because I was getting paid in crypto. My salary was first in Bitcoin, then in Ethereum. You could argue that I had no choice but to get sold on the financial part because it was pretty hard to believe in something or not to believe in something. Rather that's right there in your wallet. You're not even sure how to get it out, so you're just leaving it in your wallet.

05:57

Nadja

These things were factors, but certainly they were not the joys of technology. These things were factors, but they were not the ultimate decision making factor. They were contributing to this decision. I think in summary, the reason that I really resonated with being in the space is, as I mentioned earlier, the Ethos. I think the Ethos has meant different things to me at different times and certainly means different things to different people. Really just in summary, and overall, the idea that with crypto there was something bigger than myself, something bigger than all of these people working towards something bigger than themselves. So it really was just this vision. I think ultimately it's the vision that not only got me into things, got me serious about it, but kept me here and probably will keep me here for as long as I don't know. Who knows what the future is going to hold, but for sure I foresee myself being in crypto for a really long time to come.

07:04

JP

And certainly I'm certain that everyone that has glimpsed into the duvet of what the crypto verse reveals finds some manner, form and conviction to stay inside, let the door close behind them and explore this new universe. Thank you for sharing that particular story. Nadja, being in the crypto space, though, what is your opinion about the state of Web3 as it stands today from the position that you are in?

07:31

Nadja

Yeah, great question. So I'm not known for brevity, but I think for once I can really be succinct in one word early and really really early. That's three words. We can't even talk about Web3 adoption yet because if you think about it, we don't even know, we're not 100% sure what is a good definition. Like, what is Web3 beyond being a hyped up buzzword, which is what it's being used at the moment, but it's very difficult to encapsulate exactly what it is. There are not many people that would be able to give a good answer to what exactly is this word that we are all using and throwing around? This is not a bad thing because we are busy building what it means. We are at the moment defining it. We are giving a tangible shape to an intangible idea. I mean, this is a really beautiful thing to witness and to be a part of and it's part of this conviction that keeps me here, as I mentioned earlier.

08:44

Nadja

I think it's also important to be realistic. Web3 is in the really early stages of, let's call it a collective creative process. As any autistic person or inventor can tell you, the creative process is messy. It's chaotic, nonlinear, unpredictable, uncertain and lengthy. Really lengthy. It doesn't come on demand. It's not like you press a button and it shows up at your doorstep. It's not Amazon.

09:21

JP

Right.

09:22

Nadja

n't built until, I think, the: 1940

10:31

Nadja

And this is a really important point because it's so relevant to Web3 today. If we imagine, for example, creativity as a two step tango, let's say you have the subconscious one side and you have the conscious mind on the other side. On the subconscious end, there's this kind of madness. You have to be crazy in order to dream up new worlds and new realities. And Alison Wonderland has this great line where she says to the Mad Hatter that all the best people are a little crazy, which, again, very much applies to not only the creative process as a whole, but also to Web3 specifically. First you have this madness that's part of the subconscious, and then comes method, right? So at the moment, Web3 is definitely still in the madness phase. I mean, there might be of methods, but generally speaking, we are way more on that side of the spectrum.

11:31

Nadja

This is how it should be because it is early. Really the reality is that any groundbreaking pioneering idea gets born in this phase and then moves into a more structured, linear approach later on. The state is crazy, but, yes, we are where we are supposed to be.

11:53

JP

Wow, that's a very interesting perspective because we'd be talking about this from, of course, an early formation and then it's getting to be widespread, but not widespread enough yet. Right? Nadja, what do you think is holding it back? I mean, if crypto were to, as they say, eat the world, right? What do you think is holding it back?

12:20

Nadja

So, first, I'll continue along with my previous answer. I don't think it's as much a question of being held back, just that it's really really early. Because if we consider, for example, the life cycle for tech adoption, you have innovators that are kind of the horn of the rhinoceros, so to speak, and they lead the way by creating the way. That sounds like a Star Wars reference, even though it's not. I can totally be a writer, script writer for one of the new movies. And then you have these early adopters. They boldly go where others fear to trade. And of course, right now in Web3, this is where we are. People in Web3 are either innovators or they are early adopters. So if I differentiate for a second between Web3, which is a relatively newer term, versus crypto, that most people are more familiar with, crypto is probably a little bit ahead on the curve.

13:18

Nadja

net, the Internet was born in: 1993

13:51

JP

Give me about 20 something years ago.

13:54

Nadja

Almost 29, I think. No, 29.

13:58

JP

Yeah, my math is worse than yours.

14:02

Nadja

Well, that's great. Now I have public validation that my math is not the worst in the world. It's 29 years since the Internet was born. If you look at the data it says that we are shockingly at only a 65% adoption rate globally. You and I and the audience tuning into this on our smartphones, we can go like, what, only 65%? Like our whole entire lives are online, but it's still not for everyone. Something that we perceive as almost universal is actually not universal. You look at something that is even more quote unquote universal than the Internet. Let's take the toilet. So, not that I thought I would ever mention the word toilet in an interview, but there you go. If you look at most people's lives, I mean, this is something we don't even consider as a luxury because of course, everywhere you go there's a toilet.

15:07

Nadja

If you look at UN statistics, there are 4.2 billion people that live without a toilet. If you talk about widespread adoption of anything, what does that even mean? So I think in terms of Web3, I'll use a really overused cliche, but it is a marathon, it's not a sprint. In reality, these tracks have barely been laid out. There's this Moore's Law that says technology is increasing at an exponential rate with each new iteration. And if you follow that train of thought, then yes, for sure, Web3 should be in your friendly neighborhood household by the end of the year. I think what this kind of thinking does is it negates the complexities of human systems. Because as humans we are incredibly complex. There are so many factors that come together in order to create certain realities or prevent certain realities from being created. If we look at technology, which is a really complex topic, technology gets integrated into society.

16:17

Nadja

Society doesn't integrate itself into technology. In short, this question of how widespread adoption or what is the situation of widespread adoption and kind of how quickly are we going to make it happen? I think this is a far more complex topic for any question, but especially for something that is as new and as different as what Web3 is.

16:44

JP

Well, that's a lot of points to consider, especially when you think about if you just do the math and look at it statistically right, like you mentioned. Again, I never thought I'd be using the toilet as a reference on a show like this. It is interesting when the depiction comes in that it's only 65% of the world that has technology adoption, but it's more than 50% of the world that don't have access to certain life basics. Right. And this, of course, does provide an insight into the complexity that Web3 is trying to solve in terms of just the adoption factor from a behavioral point of view, a societal point of view. Of course, we would like to do everything that's comfortable for us as opposed to going out there and learning to do something before it takes time. So, yeah, Nadja, I believe you spot on about that assessment.

17:48

JP

Are there any cases that really fascinate you about the crypto industry that you'd like to share? Because this does seem to have an interesting flow. What about the crypto industry fascinates you enough?

18:03

Nadja

Many things, but I don't think we have enough time to go into all of them, so I'll pick a few. So I think possibility for sure. There is just vast amounts of possibility in this space. Empowerment, very definitely. It's something I feel very strongly about in terms of social justice on many different levels and the ability that Crypto has. Let me put it this way. I'm a writer, and this idea that you can create this entirely new world in your head and you bring it to life in such a way that other people will suspend their disbelief and buy into your story, that's nothing new to me. This is only in the context of writing something. When I go out there into the world, into society, there are none of the same possibilities. The rules have already been laid down and I know what is expected of me, what is possible.

19:08

Nadja

And then you get crypto and Web3 and suddenly there's this bold, daring audacity that you can do something very different on a societal scale. This is the invite that you receive. This is great in general, but then you look at what is being disrupted, this sacred, untouchable global financial industry. I mean, wow. You need on a daily basis, almost a master's in economics in order to wrap your head around how does the global economy work and why is inflation eating into my savings and what is going on and why is the middle class disappearing? These are things that we live with everyday realities, but no one really understands them and no one really has any possibility to do anything about it. For me, I think crypto is or maybe I should have a disclaimer here, crypto can be, as long as we safeguard this, almost an embodiment of the sense of we the people, because this is something not even the Internet can say.

20:23

Nadja

The Internet has made huge strides in terms of greater empowerment of people in general.

20:30

JP

Right.

20:31

Nadja

However, Web2 is so centralized that it's still in the hands of a few huge companies. I mean, to the point where governments are suing them because they have so much power and they have so much sway even over political directions in different countries. In crypto, we are really putting it back in the hands of the people. I think for me, in short, this is probably one of the most fascinating things about being in this industry.

21:04

JP

Well, that's brilliant. It really looks to see that in so many ways, the human form went, found technology to make its life better and then it's come back full circle to allow itself to better, if that makes any sense whatsoever. Right. I do like that we have complete empowerment where that's concerned, lying in the hands of we the people, as you've said. Certainly something that all our listeners over here and those that are listening in on the show, go ahead and give us a reaction if you like that statement from what you've heard so far. Right. Nadja, to shift gears a bit, I want to pick your brain a little about we've spoken about this from a point of view of what got you into it to the point of the technological advancements, to the imagination, the adoption and of course, with every great idea, the point at which it lasts that lifetime is sustainability.

22:10

JP

Right. The point about sustainability. Do you feel confident about the survival of crypto being there in the future at this point of time?

22:23

Nadja

Yeah, that is for sure the golden question, isn't it? You mentioned earlier about crypto eating the world, and I want to start off just by commenting on that and then I'll kind of lean into this answer. We often use this phrase, and I think what I've come to realize is the number one question is should crypto eat the world? Because if you think about the sustainability of this industry and what it is that we are trying to achieve at the moment, there's this tendency to really fall prey to, I don't know, shiny new toy syndrome, let's call it that. It brings to mind for me this line in what is that movie, Field of Dreams, where it says, build it and they will come. Now, I think in crypto, sometimes we take that a little too literally because we build build build, but we don't ask ourselves, why will they come?

23:25

Nadja

Because people don't go anywhere and people don't do anything and people don't say yes to things unless there's something in it for them. Right. It's basic human psychology. We as an industry, I think we've gone from this philosophical conviction that crypto will save the world. Very often nowadays it's more of a money grab where it's first in, first out. We don't really consider the sustainability of what it is that we are building or contributing because it's all about timing. Get the time right, time your launch and time your product and time your investments. As soon as there's enough money and enough eyes on you, okay, then it's out and the next guy comes in.

24:14

JP

Right.

24:14

Nadja

I think as someone, and I definitely am all in, I would be the first to say that if this is the way that we are going to play things, then no, crypto shouldn't eat the world because the world's been eaten enough already. I'm not so sure if we are going to build something that is really sustainable. This on the more negative end of things, but then on the positive side, I'll make a joke here, but I'll tell you, it's going to be a joke, otherwise you're not going to laugh. This is just how bad my sense of humor is. The sense of well, I mean, there's this saying in crypto, like diamond hands. If someone holds on to crypto for like they're a hodler, they're not someone who sells easily. I would say that the reason that crypto will survive and will be sustainable in the sense that it will continue to build itself out is because diamond hands are hard to break.

25:20

Nadja

And I don't like this term. I mean, the concept of weak hands and okay, those who sell easily and quickly, I don't particularly like this term because I think there's so much more complexity around it. I mean, why do people come in and why do they get out so easily? The truth is that a lot of what the public sees are linked to major news headlines and this is what sways public opinion and public behavior. Bitcoin is trading at $40,000, okay, so let's all get in now because it never will be this cheap again. We are going to get rich and you're going to get rich all the way to the moon. There's a few jump scares and next minute everyone's out again. Oh no, the nay says we're right. Crypto is as good as dead. Get out while you still can. If you are not in something, if you are not seeing the daily reality of something, it's very easy to get swayed by the wind blowing this way and the wind blowing that way.

26:31

Nadja

I think if you've been in the industry as long as I have and yeah, in crypto, five years feels like 50, I think you have a bit of a different vantage point because you see these cycles come and go, but at the same time you also see that the core of it is fleshing out. Now, in my personal life philosophy, I believe that if you really, truly want to understand something from the inside out, get a job in that industry. And that's probably because I'm a workaholic. But I've worked in therapeutic field. I've worked in education, clinical trials, pharmaceuticals, and in agency side marketing where I had clients from a broad spectrum of industries. I can tell you horror stories about what goes on in each of those sectors. Now don't get me wrong, I can do exactly the same in crypto. There are many horror stories here too.

27:29

Nadja

I think the difference is that in this industry, those people working on building something, they just have such a much better chance of positively influencing the outcome. And this is because A, it is so early and B, because it is so decentralized now. Yeah, speaking of decentralization, I mean, the more things are becoming institutionalized and with more investors popping in and out like a jack in a box, which is part and parcel of mass adoption, it is becoming more challenging for sure. Yeah, if I can quote Peter Parker's uncle Ben, with great power comes great responsibility. I think that the amount of people working in crypto who have the conviction that this is the right place to be if you want to do good things. I have zero doubts that no matter what the markets say, crypto is here to stay and it will overall bring societal changes that are positive.

28:33

Nadja

It's just a question of time. That's the thing that humans are not good at. We are not good at waiting because we are not patient.

28:41

JP

Absolutely, spot on. I think that you've elaborated so much on how this is going to pan out, especially what are some of the important points when it comes to the survival and most importantly, the sustainability where crypto is concerned. It's like you keep hearing the naysayers and that's something that you see around you every time someone asks about, should I invest in crypto? Should I do this? Oh listen, I put some money in, but all I've seen is losses so far. And that's the only reference to what Web3 and crypto is about, right? It's just about the trading. Yes, if I had a penny for every time somebody said that, hey, crypto is dead, I guess I'd have a full bitcoin.

29:31

Nadja

If only.

29:34

JP

Well, wishful thinking. Wishful thinking. Okay, well, Nadja, thank you so much for being on the show today and sharing your thoughts with us. I want to open up the room at this point of time for some questions from the audience and if that's okay with you. I know we've got just a few minutes left, but we can take one question that's coming in from the audience.

29:57

Nadja

Absolutely happy to answer and yeah, just thank you very much as well. I've thoroughly enjoyed myself and I wish AdLunam and this particular Diving Into Crypto series all the best. I'm very excited to join in or tune in at least every week and listen to what you guys are talking about.

30:17

JP

Thank you. Thank you so much Nadja. Okay, so I see that we have one person who sent a question. Right? Okay, I don't know how to pronounce it. It's written in a different language, the name, but whoever you are, thank you for your question. Nadja, one of our listeners wants to know what is the best and worst thing about working in the crypto space?

30:46

Nadja

That is a great question, but I think it probably depends on who's asking. If the person asking is also working in crypto, then I don't need to give an answer. We'd lock eyes and we'd bask in the knowledge that, okay, great, we're in an industry that's reimagining what's possible. On a more serious note, the fact that the industry is a largely remote first, which is a huge benefit, especially in this time, COVID and other factors. Also, I think they are not, at least to the same extent, they are not the same glass ceilings that apply to other industries. In a lot of industries, if you are not, generally speaking, a CIS white male in a top ten economy, it's difficult to really get somewhere in crypto. Your passport, your race, your gender, your age, those things are not nearly as important as your vision. I think this is definitely something that these are things that are really huge benefits in terms of what is the worst thing about working in crypto.

32:03

Nadja

This would probably be if someone who is not in crypto asks me this question because then I would have to explain that no, crypto isn't just some giant scam. Of course I would silently curse or even cry that there are so many seedy characters in this industry that's giving the media ammunition to keep spinning that narrative. So, yeah, it's great when you don't have to explain yourself. When you do, then it becomes probably one of the most painful things about working in this space. Because then you do have to confront some of these more problematic and even painful realities that despite everything that I've said in this talk that we've done together, not everyone has investors' best interests at heart. Not everyone has the industry's best interests at heart. You have to take the good and the bad. Unfortunately but I mean, inevitably there's both.

33:08

Nadja

I think just really in closing, I think that for people working in crypto, the responsibility really is to make sure that this balance is evened out. That's almost like a scale. You don't go too far into the one end. Really, ultimately, you are not just in this industry for yourself, but you are in this. I don't know, I don't want to sound like one of those self development gurus, but you're not planting a tree just so you can get shade because very often if you plant a tree, you are. Not going to enjoy the shade, but it's also for future generations. Really what we are doing here is more than just about us. And I think as long as we can remember that and kind of keep to that Ethos, then working in crypto and even the fact that crypto exists is a beautiful thing.

34:01

JP

Thank you for that answer, Nadja, and I hope that does answer your question, the person who asked it. Ladies and gentlemen, we come to the end of our show before we go once again, smash those buttons and give Nadja a reaction for sharing her thoughts in today's episode of Diving Into Crypto. Nadja, I can't thank you enough for being the first guest on our show today. I couldn't have thought of a better person. It's been a blast for me and I hope you've enjoyed yourself on this show as well.

34:33

Nadja

I got to mention toilet, I am absolutely happy. In all seriousness, as I said earlier, I just really enjoyed having this conversation with you and I think that it's so important to have these kind of conversations. Once again wishing you all the best for the rest of the show. I think that every week is going to be really exciting to listen to the amazing guest speakers that I know are already being lined up. I'm looking forward to it and yeah, to everyone out there listening, great to spend this time with you and keep growing.

35:12

JP

Thank you so much Nadja. Have a great day. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, once again this is JP from AdLunam inc. Speaking to you about Web3. Have a good one. Cheers you.